Posts
A regular reader, Henry, commented:
"A good piece from you about Lean Fire.
Like you, I have a crisis mentality and always worried about money not enough after FIRE in my 40s.
To the extent that I would review my savings versus expenses every month.
Then I figured out I should use a withdrawal rate of maximum 2% and factor in a 2.5% annual inflation into my calculation.
This relieved the situation a lot and I only look at the number once a year.
Then C19 induced high inflation struck.
Haha, had to rework those numbers again every few months.
Glad that I'm still alive and just returned from a Europe holiday.
Your blog is so good. I learnt a lot since 2014, the year that I FIRE. Thanks again."
Then, in reply to my comment, Henry dropped a surprise on me.
Then, in reply to my comment, Henry dropped a surprise on me.
Henry said:
"Alamak AK. Cannot compare my Lean FIRE with your Abundant FIRE lah. 🔥
Even go holiday also must go when there's promo and low period to save costs.
Now back to the reality of "poverty" living. Lol.
Your blog had helped many over the years.
Sifu and role model. Keep it up."
I was replying to Henry's comment and something just kept me shifting my weight on the chair.
I decided the problem was not my chair nor my buttocks.
I was very curious.
Very, very curious.
So, I decided to publish my reply as a blog to see if there is a chance of satisfying my curiosity.
My response.
"Hi Henry,
Oh, you went for Lean F.I.R.E.
Was that concept already around so many years ago?
I wasn't aware of the different forms of F.I.R.E. when I decided to retire early at 45 so many years ago.
I just did it my way. LOL.
The fact that you did it and have been successful for so many years shows that I might be too conservative.
My blogs on Lean F.I.R.E. might then give people the idea that I am talking down on the concept.
It is not my intention to talk down, to be honest.
I am just sharing a cautionary message.
Now, having read your comment, I am interested to hear from people who are on Lean F.I.R.E. or who are thinking about Lean F.I.R.E. as something viable.
How do they feel about the concept now?
Are they still comfortable with possibly retiring early with little or no room for error?
Or is my idea that there is little or no room for error an error? -.-"
Oh, yes, I know what you mean by "poverty" living.
Rich people laugh at me for saving small sums of money!
They say I have a poverty mindset. (TmT)
Thanks for encouraging me to continue blogging.
Thanks for encouraging me to continue blogging.
If I were to retire fully from blogging, everyone who regularly eavesdrops on me has lots of alternatives available now.
In recent years, while I was hiding in my gaming cave, to borrow a phrase from Keng, so many new personal finance/investment bloggers and also YouTubers in Singapore popped up.
Really, the only constant in life is change and this is a good change.
In recent years, I have been cutting back on social engagements and even the number of ways people could get in touch with me became very limited.
I am one step away from being a hermit.
I enjoy spending quality time with myself a bit too much, maybe.
Well, although I have been a semi retired blogger in recent years, a full retirement isn't happening yet.
Yet. ;p
I still enjoy blogging and, now, I even enjoy experimenting with YouTube video production.
Old dog learning new trick. ;p
So, I will stick around.
I have decided to publish my response to your comment as a blog because I believe it should have a wider audience.
I want to share an important point and a not so important point here.
1. AK doesn't know everything and could be wrong about Lean F.I.R.E.
2. AK is a semi-retired blogger and a new YouTuber who is just having fun.
Agree or not?"
Recently published:
Bloggy Award
29 comments:
Hi Henry,
Thank you so much for being a good sport and following up on our earlier conversation. :)
Well, like I said before, it is not how much money we make but how much money we save that will determine if we become rich.
In the same vein, I might have more passive income than you but if I were to spend a lot more, then, I might end up being in a worse shape than you.
Honestly, my expenses are growing and largely because I have decided on two things.
1. To provide more financial support to my parents.
2. To live my life less frugally.
Life is too short.
You might remember the update I provided in August last year:
Updated budget.
So, naturally, I do not think my passive income will be growing very much in future but I am OK with this.
I am definitely not laughing at you because I would walk to malls far from my home too.
The pedometer would register about 10,000 steps or more each time. ;p
For anyone who is even a little financially savvy, the high inflation and high interest rate environment in the last 1 year would cause some concern.
It isn't a bad thing for everybody, like you said, as people with little or no debt and plenty of cash are in a good place. :)
Enjoy F.I.R.E. and I hope to hear from more readers like you. :D
Dear AK,
I too benefited a lot from your blog, especially the part on CPF. I believe your blog in no small way contributed to me being able to Lean FIRE today. Thank you AK!
I thought to answer your call for sharing from the LEAN FIRE angle. When I Lean FIREd in 2022, the economic environment was still good. Unfortunately, quite soon after, inflation rose and both stocks AND bonds got clobbered, which means my expenses went up and my assets went down. Yikes!
I think the only reason I am surviving in spite of only being LEAN FIRE (instead of normal FIRE) is because I too, have the "crisis mindset" that Henry talks about. So I have put in additional buffers like having no debt. Big ticket items like CPF are already taken care of. I hold cash/ near cash holdings for X no. of years to prevent the sequence of returns risk to avoid drawing down my portfolio in bad times (like today!).
It's still too early to tell if my buffers will hold because it has only been a year, though so far I'm surviving. Actually better than surviving, because I too, am travelling, but at low season (like Henry above). Yay, slow travel!
Not to mention, I too am a near-hermit like AK :) so I can survive on modest LEAN FIRE for day-to-day expenses, without feeling deprived at all.
Hi AK,
People my age do not qualify for FIRE. For us above 60, it is FART. Financially Assured, Retire Totally.
Ever wondered why old people are sometimes referred to as old farts?
Well I am not retired yet but my big question is what do all the FIRErs do with their time?
I have friends who have FIREd but hearing what they do with their time does not inspire me to follow them. Some are doing well pursuing investment but most others are just living mundane lifestyles. In our chat group, the retired friends are the silent ones. I wonder why?
I have yet to find that something to occupy my time when I retire. Not waiting till retirement to travel, we have been making two trips each year; a trip around the region and a longer one to the "ang moh" countries. Still have a long list of countries to visit in my bucket list.
Also another revelation was quite a number of the FIRErs eventually ended up doing some form of work. Dont think they needed the money but as one put it, "to have social connection and not to waste the time!"
Would be interesting to hear how FIRErs keep themselves occupied.
Hi Joy N. Hands,
Thank you so much for helping to satisfy my curiosity. :)
Congratulations on the successful execution of your F.I.R.E. in 2022! :D
Yes, even though we might have sufficient passive income to support our lifestyle, it is so important to have an adequate emergency fund if we want to F.I.R.E. with peace of mind.
When I blogged about this a long time ago, a fellow blogger was in disbelief that I still needed an emergency fund. Well, I just put it down to "he young, I old." ;p
A friend told me as we grow older, our balls shrink. LOL. Don't know scientific or not?
Having a crisis mentality is not a bad thing because if we take care of the downside, the upside should take care of itself.
So, it is possible for Lean F.I.R.E. to work as long as we do not have liabilities and if we have a robust buffer.
Having a maxed out CPF means we will have another source of income when we turn 65.
To be honest, what you and Henry have doesn't sound like the run of the mill Lean F.I.R.E. to me.
I think I will call it Enhanced Lean F.I.R.E. :D
Hi MSI,
Whenever I type your nickname as a short form, I am tempted to buy a new gaming laptop because MSI makes very good looking gaming laptops! :D
That makes the perfect introduction to my reply to your question.
What does AK who retired at 45 do most of the time?
Gaming!
I have played so many F2P online games in the last few years, more games than my entire childhood!
Of course, there was no such thing as F2P in my childhood.
Don't have to wait till I die because I am already in (gaming) heaven. ;p
It is so important not to be married to our work.
It is important to develop interests outside of work and I have blogged about this many times in the past.
Otherwise, we would have nothing interesting to do when we retire, which is one reason why retirees go back to work.
So, you are right to stay gainfully employed since you have yet to find that something you want to do in retirement.
Of course, for people who enjoy their work, there could be no strong reason to retire because work is not work to them.
They are so lucky! :D
Reference:
Spent money and now will spend more time.
Dear AK,
Forgive me if I am talking too much in your comments space but I find the comments really interesting. Also, I am, just being one-year in, newly LEAN FIREd so I am still making sense of my own experience.
I call myself LEAN Fired because I definitely have a lower (or some say "different" depending on how you want to spin the PR! :) ) standard of living compared to when I was working.
I have to be much more intentional about my money compared to when I was working because I am LEAN, not normal FIRE. But perhaps, on the other hand, I am less intentional about my time. And I get to savour the time "wasting".
I have always been asked how I spend my time, and it is difficult to answer. It's like time slows down, but yet it goes fast! On my own, I do my art work, exercise and learn new skills such as learning to cook different cuisines and bake better. With others, I go for walks, makan or travel. If I use the same mindset as the "me" when I was working, I think I am really not time efficient or productive leh. I truly think the phrase "slow living" is really apt.
MSI says most who are retired are living mundane lifestyles. I can't speak for other FIREd people, but for me, that is 100% true. Again, just speaking for myself, I am glad I found out about the FIRE movement only in my mid 30s. It means during my spendy twenties and early 30s, I was able to "taste" the "happening" life. So that today, I can be content instead of feeling deprived with a simple life.
MSI also said "the retired friends are the silent ones. I wonder why?". I must confess I also became more quiet after I LEAN FIREd. I feel that my lifestyle is so out of the norm in Singapore, and hard to jump to add on to the conversation with something in common. Let's say people are chatting:
"Eh, I bought a condo!"; or
"I got a new car, but wah lau eh, the COE so high!", or
"My job is so stressful!", or
"We just tried out this new patisserie!" etc.
it's hard to connect with a similar experience. So I just listen and empathise if needed or ask them questions about the new cafe or travel destination. It is difficult to convey my own experience to others, like a peace of mind or contentment, when it feels to others like you are doing "nothing". I mean, who can understand why I spend weeks learning to bake a croissant when you can just buy one for $6? Hee hee, I also cannot explain ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As a FIREd person, you can understand the working lifestyle because you've been there. But I can sense it is harder for someone who is still in the workforce to understand those who are FIREd if they haven't experienced it.
So I am really grateful that there are people like AK who unapologetically share how you spend time gaming. You give the rest of us permission to do simple things that brings us joy, no matter how others may view how we spend our time. :)
Hi Joy N. Hands,
Hey, you are using your precious retirement time and energy to comment here.
You are giving me and other like minded readers plenty of food for thought!
Free food, I like. ;p
So, there is nothing for me to forgive. ;)
Right off the bat, I found myself nodding in agreement.
I like your "slow living."
In my retirement, I am slow moving too since I don't have deadlines to meet.
Everything is "OTOT." LOL.
See:
Financial freedom or freedom in retirement?
However, because I have fun things to do everyday, time flies!
It doesn't feel like it but I have retired for 8 years!
So stunned like vegetable!
As for being quieter and keeping to yourself in early retirement because F.I.R.E. isn't the norm, you took the words right out of my mouth.
For sure, it is harder for people who are still in the rat race to understand us.
However, there are those who look down on us or even pity us. O_o
Very cham like that. (TmT)
For examples:
1. Why do we obsess with salaries?
2. AK should be ashamed.
3. You are not successful in Singapore.
I have stopped caring a long time ago but the topic still makes for good content.
All of us can have a good laugh here in ASSI. :D
To conclude, I want to assure you that baking our own cakes and croissants is a better idea than buying from bakeries.
Commercial bakeries use trans fats in their goods so that they stay good for longer and they usually have too much sugar and sometimes coloring too.
I am fortunate that my sister is a very good baker and I only eat what she bakes.
Gambatte! :D
Hi AK, I would say all your fellow followers who are FIRE-ees including yourself, are happy people who have followed your hearts to live the life of your choice without needing to worry about financial matters 😁 Who cares about how others view you as they are not in your life day in and day out. I am also sharing your joys of having get there! It's so inspiring 👏👏👏
Hi Henry,
You saw my reply to Joy?
"To be honest, what you and Henry have doesn't sound like the run of the mill Lean F.I.R.E. to me. I think I will call it Enhanced Lean F.I.R.E."
So, yes, I agree with STE that what you folks have isn't really Lean F.I.R.E.
I have been reading up on the topic and it isn't how much spending a month that is the matter.
A person is on Lean F.I.R.E. if his passive income is able to cover his basic necessities in life, leaving very little or no room for error.
You and Joy can go to Europe on holiday wor. That is not basic necessity lor.
It means you folks have some fat in your F.I.R.E. lah. ;p
Hi Sandra,
Thank you for supporting my lifestyle! :D
Now, I am doing everything I have ever wanted to do as a child but I do some adult stuff like housework too, of course. ;p
Very happy to know that you find our stories inspiring.
I have an inkling that you will be on F.I.R.E. soon or maybe you just choose not to.
Well, if AK can do it, so can you! ;)
The Monetary Authority of Singapore is worried about the economy, we should be worried too.
Latest news:
Prepare for a possible recession.
Err... I have already joined the club not too long ago 😁 holidaying in EU now😜
Hi AK
Interesting article. I always enjoyed reading how others find the courage to FIRE and their experiences and challenges living it. As for myself, from the time I started working, I have been a saver - my salary grew much faster than my expenses - and I was saving anywhere between 50-80% of my pay monthly. I am not living a lean life - I buy anything I want - but I am not brand conscious and didn't need to spend too much. I spend when it pleases me - restaurant meals or travel occasionally. I consider myself middle class. When I decided to stop work during the covid years, I did not consider myself fully retired - just taking a break - fully aware that if I do not want to work anymore, I am ready for it financially and mentally. I am still not working after these 3 years. So I am living a FIRE life already. I believe I have sufficient planned for living, medical and for emergency even if I do not work anymore, both for myself and family. Reading your blog and the related reader comments enable me to understand how others are living their FIRE lives.
Next, I would like to respond to MSI message.
MSI message seems to mock those who retired around 60, and consider them "old farts" - a derogative term. No need for that - even if its tongue-in-cheek. Tsk tsk. What have they done to offend you with their retirement? Are you disturbed that they found contentment and went ahead to retire while you are still searching of what to do during your retirement ? Instead of FART - how about FO. and then RA ? FO is not what you might think, it is Financially Okay; RA is Retired Already (or Retire Anytime).
You question what FIRErs do with their time and substantiate with negative and "uninspiring" examples - concluding that most will return to some form of work. You seems to be justifying and rationalizing openly why you should continue working. Maybe you really enjoy your work (good for you) or maybe you cannot bear to part with your salary or both.
You mentioned that in your chat group, retired friends are the silent ones. Have you ever wonder if its because they are busying living their retirement lives, and do not spend or depend as much on their mobile phones for entertainment and social connects as much as those who are working? Maybe they find the chatgroup discussion uninteresting and time wasting - and prefer physical activities or other ways to spend their time? Maybe they are very contented with their current living arrangements, what they do daily and the new hobbies /friends they spend time with. For myself, it is all the above.
Question for you: if you only have the next 5 years to live, would you still think the same and stick with your current decision and still be working? Why would it change? Reading your message, you should not be doing anything different, since you are already enjoying what you are doing? What would you have told blogger CW8888 if he were to ask you for your advice on retirement 7 years ago before he retired? How would your response to him be any different today?
Hi Sandra,
So, my instincts were right!
Just from your past comments, I had a feeling that you should be on F.I.R.E. ;p
Enjoy Europe! :D
Hi S999,
I am glad I stuck my neck out to blog about the risk of Lean F.I.R.E.
The discussions the blogs have generated are definitely high quality.
It has also nudged me to read a bit more on the subject just to get more perspectives.
Lean F.I.R.E. wasn't something I would have done so many years ago even if I had known about it.
I am the "kiasu" and "kiasi" type. ;p
However, it is interesting to see how Lean F.I.R.E. has worked for many people.
From my readings, it also appears that, for some, Lean F.I.R.E. has worked in part because of the very low inflation and also low interest rate environment in recent years.
Those who achieved Lean F.I.R.E. in recent years but with no contingency plan might have to come out of retirement because things have changed.
So, although some might think I was looking down on Lean F.I.R.E. when I really wasn't, the cautionary note in my blogs given the current environment should be taken seriously. :)
As for MSI, I told him that he is right to stay gainfully employed since he has yet to find something he wants to do in retirement.
I know someone who went on F.I.R.E and went back to work a few months later because he said he couldn't bear waking up in the morning and staring at his ceiling while lying in his bed, thinking of what do to each and every day. LOL. ;p
Anyway, I am just being a kaypoh. I will let MSI speak for himself. :)
Hi S999,
I was referring to myself (& people in my age group and older) that when we retire, we are retiring for good and in good financial standing. The FART was meant to be a humourous counter to the younger retirees with their FIRE acronym. There were many other acronyms bandied around in social media such as FURY = Financially Unfettered, Retire Young. It was meant in good fun, not to offend anyone.
On the late CW888, he was my role model. I learnt much from him as I learnt much from AK71 on investment.
To me Time and Health are more important than wealth. So we must use them wisely.
AK Shifu and all the FIRE'd people who commented
Thank you, I learned so much. After doing my sums, I be so fortunate if I can do what I like (without worrying for money) in my mid 50s, earlier from my previous estimate of 58-59y..I started work late, was paying my student loan. Now we are parent with 2 teenage kids. A couple of right moves we made was transferring OA to SA in our younger days, only about a quarter of our net worth is locked up in our residence and we have never own a car. Maybe because of the cost savings,we can travel yearly (except COVID years) and still get to save a little towards our retirement with our small salary. A wise man once told us if our adult kids who are working still need our financial support, then no matter how much we have we will never retire. So while we manage our kids expectations and share values, as importantly, we have accepted there are material things we will never have but place greater value in good health and relationships which will carry us far in our old age. Cheers
Hi Henry,
I had to scroll up and see who you were referring to since my passport has expired and I don't plan on getting a new one. LOL.
So, Joy, Sandra and you?
I hope you enjoy the trip and don't talk shop.
Retired how to talk shop?
For us, talk shop is about F.I.R.E. lah. ;p
Now is a good time to go on holiday with the S$ so strong.
I went to Australia about 20 years ago on a 10 days holiday and that cost me $1,000 or so only.
Later on, I made yearly trips to Japan and those were quite cheap too. 10 days holiday for about $1,500.
Now, with the Yen so cheap, it is probably cheaper.
However, I don't feel like travelling anymore. Very lazy. ;p
Hi C,
For sure, there are more important things in life than money. :)
However, you know what they say.
Money cannot do everything but we cannot do anything without money.
This is true in the society we live in anyway.
So, financial literacy is so important and I am glad you are sharing your values with your children.
I am so happy to learn that you will be able to retire earlier than expected and going by your comment, I get the feeling that you are also the worrying kind.
So, you are probably building a buffer now instead of retiring earlier so that when you do retire, you will not have to worry about things going wrong.
I did the same thing! :D
We kiasu and kiasi people must unite! ;p
Yes, K&K people united ! :)
I like your fortune teller style of replying to some of our comments, quite accurate I must say. Reading between the lines is another skill I must learn from you. Lol.
Absolutely, who says money is unimportant in Singapore is probably living in self denial or got an inheritance in place. My guess is these people won't even bother reading your blog to begin with.
No space to explain here, but we have seen parents bailing out their adult kids again and again, and gone from financially ok to poverty line. This is not even an emergency scenario. Which is why we strongly feel this is an important area as we heads towards retirement. Anyway, to each his own lah. We just poor people talking here. Thanks for listening. :)
Hi C,
Aiyoh, AK is no fortune teller lah.
All the credit goes to my bowling ball that thinks it is a crystal ball.
It gets lucky with predictions sometimes. ;p
For sure, we don't want children to grow up thinking their parents are their ATMs!
See:
My parents are my ATMs.
I was quite poor once upon a time which is why I am the way I am.
See:
Never be poor! How becoming almost bankrupt planted the seed of F.I.R.E. in me?
So, I stand in solidarity with you!
Jialat! I been watching too much news recently.
Now, I talk like a politician. ;p
Hello Henry, nice meeting you here 😉
Haha, spending my time while on road journeys reading your old articles 😂
Hi Sandra,
Someone told me my blogs very good to read before bedtime.
Puts him to sleep. (TmT)
Glad my old articles are still useful, one way or another. ;p
Post a Comment