Tea with LS: Withdraw CPF MSTU and interest at 55?

Very well researched and put together. Hats off to LS who originally placed this in the comments section.
Hi AK,

I guess this withdrawal regarding top-up money and its interest is causing a lot of confusion. This is due to the frequent changes in CPF policies/withdrawal rules. What is making it worse is that some of our CPF officers are also not as well-versed and providing wrong information (anecdotes from my friends and some comments in forums. Please disregard this if its offensive to you) and also the CPF website is poorly designed with incomplete information all over the place. 

I had trawled through the website for more than 1 hour in order to post the information below. (Maybe I am just lousy at searching for information at the CPF website, lol)

Firstly, what is causing the confusion? It is because of this particular rule...

"After setting aside your Full Retirement Sum or Basic Retirement Sum with sufficient property charge/pledge, you can choose to withdraw the remaining CPF balances (excluding top-up monies, government grants, and interest earned in your Retirement Account)"

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members//Faq/schemes/retirement/retirement-sum-scheme#faq17406

But in the same webpage, this is we can also see this;

"​Your Ordinary and Special Account savings after setting aside the applicable Full Retirement Sum (FRS) or Basic Retirement Sum (BRS) with sufficient property charge/pledge."

Does this means you can withdraw all remaining funds in OA/SA after you set aside the amount for FRS/BRS? Or will the first statement take priority and takes effect (resulting in unable to withdraw the top-up money and its interest) even after we set aside enough for FRS/BRS? This is what is causing the confusion.


After searching the CPF website for over an hour, I finally found this;

"If you had received top-ups before age 55, the top-ups and accrued interest in your Special Account (SA) will be transferred to your Retirement Account (RA) when you turn 55. Any excess, above the Full Retirement Sum applicable to you, can be withdrawn when you apply for withdrawal at age 55."

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members//Faq/schemes/retirement/retirement-sum-scheme#faq17406

What is interesting and yet confusing is this (also in the same webpage);

"In addition, top-up monies cannot be used to form part of the Basic Retirement Sum (BRS) in computing how much RA savings above their BRS that can be withdrawn through sufficient CPF property charge or pledge"

Which actually means that even if your BRS is $83,000, and you have $123,000 in your RA ($100,000 is from top-up and its interest), you will not be able to withdraw anything. That is due to after deducting your top-up money ($100,000) from your RA ($123,000), you got only $23,000 left which is less than the BRS ($83,000). You can read in detail of the example provide at the webpage.

So let us summarize :

1) If it is about FRS, you can withdraw all the remaining funds that exceeds the FRS amount,

2) if it is about BRS, the rule applies and you cannot withdraw the top-up money and its interest. You can only withdraw remaining funds if your RA still exceed BRS after deducting the top-up and its interest.

Sorry for the exceedingly long post but I hope it clears up the doubts.

P.S. actually I may be wasting my time here trying to clear things up since the withdrawal might change again 1-2 years down the road. I still have almost 2 decades before I hit the withdrawal age...
P.P.S hopefully this is useful for people who is near to the withdrawal age (55 years old)...

Related post:
Did CPF Top Ups but denied lump sum withdrawal?

Average income workers have a choice to be rich!

I went out to lunch with my mom before sending her to the hospital. 

I went to a supermarket nearby to buy some chocolate which was on special offer before going to a bank to enjoy a cup of tea while waiting for her to call when she was done.

I like buying things at knocked down prices (i.e. the chocolate) and I like free (i.e. the tea). 

Anyway, there was a big screen TV right in front of me with ads flashing. 

One ad asked:

"When you have to stop working, can you afford to?"

It is a straight forward question that is also depressing because it suggests we don't have a choice as to when we stop working. 

We stop working when we have to. 

We stop working when we are told to. 

Wait a minute, that sounds like a prisoner in a labor camp serving time. Alamak!

Don't you hate the feeling of working because you don't have a choice? 

Yes, of course, you do. 

I would be surprised if you don't.

This is probably why you are reading my blog and others like it. 




You want to be financially free so that you do not have to exchange the most precious resource you have (i.e. time) for money anymore. 

You don't want to serve time. 

Time serves you.

So, instead, I would ask:

"If you want to stop working, can you afford to?"

I am going to be brutally honest. 

Not many people can. 

This is something only the rich can do. 

If you are not rich, continue to serve time. Ouch!

AK, you are terrible! 

Bad AK! Bad AK!

The truth hurts. 

So, what to do? 

Become rich lah!

I believe that even average income workers can become rich and I am not talking about "striking millions at TOTO" kind of rich. 




I am talking about "not having to exchange time for money anymore" kind of rich.

Why do many average income workers find this impossible? 

Do you believe me if I were to say it is not because they make an average income? 

The truth is many of them find this impossible because they can afford so many things in life and would get them in a heartbeat. 

This is why they cannot afford to stop working.

This is based on a true story:

Guy: "I think we should go to Europe on a vacation. The Euro is so cheap now."

Gal: "Wow! Good idea! I can buy all the branded goods there! So much cheaper than in Singapore!"

Guy: "I have $10,000 saved up this year. We can have a good time there."

Gal: "I am so happy! I think we deserve it."

Oh, they definitely deserve it! 

If this is the way they are going to live, year after year, they deserve to be destitute and get VIP (i.e. Very Impoverished Person) seats at Roy's next "RETURN OUR CPF" rally in Hong Lim Park.

This is based on a reality show I watched:

Guy: "I prefer Hawaii for our honeymoon. I don't want to go to Phuket."

Gal: "But we cannot afford it. We have a budget, remember?"

Guy: "I know we cannot afford it but I think we deserve it. We can take a loan."

OMG! That guy is an IDIOT! 

I probably exclaimed so loudly that my neighbors got a fright.

Hey, woman! Financial freedom gives us options but you don't need financial freedom to opt out of this relationship. 

I think you can afford to dump that fellow. 

Do it before your finances end up in the dumps and you cannot afford anything else!

Spend all the money we make, we will always be poor.

Borrow money to fund our lifestyle, we will be poorer than poor.

Don't let people ask you (and not at the bank):

"When you have to stop working, can you afford to?"

Ask instead:

"If you want to stop working, can you afford to?"




The difference between the two questions is one of choice. 

We have choices in life and if we want to continue having choices in life, choose carefully.

Yes, even average income workers have a choice to be rich!

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4. How much can you save?

5. Prepared for retrenchment.

Do online contribution to Medisave and get $88 Ang Bao.

"For those under 65, the Basic Healthcare Sum next year will be S$54,500, up from S$52,000 previously, the authorities said."
Source:
CNA, 16 November 2017





The Basic Healthcare Sum (BHS) which was known as the Medisave Contribution Ceiling (MCC) in the past has been raised from $49,800 to $52,000 in 2017. 

This means that we can voluntarily contribute $2,200 now. 

Of course, for those who are gainfully employed, this contribution will enjoy income tax relief.

For people like me whose CPF-SA has already hit or exceeded the prevailing Minimum Sum or Full Retirement Sum, this is about the only avenue we have to pump more money into our CPF to earn a 4% interest. 




Of course, for those of us whose mandatory contributions (MC or contributions from earned income) are lower than the CPF Annual Limit ($37,740), we can also do regular voluntary contributions for the difference, maxing out the CPF Annual Limit. 

The CPFB will apportion the contribution to our OA, SA and MA. 

How much goes into each account will depend on our age group.

I am so glad to be promoted to the next age bracket which means more of my regular voluntary contributions will go to my CPF-SA which is paid a higher interest. 

One of the reasons for me to be happy with ageing.





We can do a contribution to our CPF-MA online.

Here is how to do it:

Go to CPF e-Cashier homepage.

Enter details and choice.

Check allowable contribution

$2,200 this time of year.

Contribute online using eNETS

It is done!

I contributed only $2,000 because that is the daily limit for me.

How much interest will $2,200 earn in a year? 




At 4%, that is $88.

Some people might say $88 is not a lot of money. 

What will AK say? 

It is still money and good money from the government too.




How do we build wealth through saving money? 

Slowly and steadily, every dollar adds up.

From my FB wall.

Don't underestimate the power of saving a few dollars a day, every day. Don't underestimate the power of compound interest.

What? Don't have $2,200 to contribute to your CPF-MA? 

Oh, you need the money buy your daily cup of Starbucks coffee? 

OK lor. You are free to choose.




I choose to have free medical insurance. 

It is such a no brainer.

I forgot to mention that 88 is such an auspicious number too. 

Huat, huat ah!




Related post:
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Mr. Lee Kuan Yew said China could become pushy.

"I don't want to sound apocalyptic but I don't see Taiwan as being able to resist the pull of the mainland. There will come a time when the 7th fleet cannot intervene." Mr. Lee Kuan Yew.

A long time ago in ancient China, there was a big village that sat on both banks of a river. One day, there was a big fight in the village and villagers living on the left bank said they wanted to have nothing to do with the villagers on the right bank. 

The village chief who was living on the right bank rejected this and called the newly appointed village chief on the left bank a traitor.

Then, there was a small village farther inland on the right bank that was friendly with the big village. Although the big village was broken into two and continued to quarrel, it had nothing to do with the small village. 

A case of domestic conflict, chief of the small village thought.

The small village was quite good at doing certain things and designing war chariots was one of them. Being small, the village didn't have room to test them and would send them to the left bank of the big village for testing. The chariots had to pass through the right bank of the big village to do so and for years that went on without incident.

Then, one day, the quarrel in the big village escalated. On that fateful day, the chariots being tested on the left bank were on their way back to the small village. 

It didn't matter that the late chief of the small village helped them before, the right bank which sought to isolate the left bank took hold of the chariots. The small village which needed the big village in more ways than one was helpless.

The small village then understood the saying:

穷不与富斗，富不与官斗。

In ancient China, the rich would pay money just to get a position in government. Being rich was good but being rich and powerful was better.

Got power, can be pushy. 

Got power, can be assertive.

Of course, it was not the first time our country's first Prime Minister, the late Mr. Lee Kuan Yew, got it right.

Related post:
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“As the case is still under investigation, no further information is available. The suspected controlled items are still kept at a customs storage place in Tuen Mun. They have been stored indoors since December 6,” a spokesman said.

At a daily press briefing, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang would only say that the Hong Kong government is handling the incident in accordance with relevant laws.

Beijing has always known about the arrangements between Taiwan and Singapore and remained silent on the issue until now, seizure of the armoured vehicles provides it with an excellent opportunity. Whether this occasion is orchestrated or opportunistic is of secondary importance. The affair gives China floor to push back against the undesirable activity, drive a wedge between Singapore and Taiwan and give a lesson to Singapore for recent statements on the South China Sea and China’s role in the dispute.